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Billy Crone

Jan Markell, Eric Barger, and Billy Crone Play VICTIMS to Keep their Pretrib Rapture Adherents Corralled

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Jan Markell and Eric Barger want you to feel sorry for them and thereby believe the pretrib view (she claims that we are “persecuting” her and that it is “not a stretch of that word”). That sums up their recent program in defensively responding to the prewrath position along with their guest pretribber Billy Crone.

Billy Crone blusters throughout this program, completely misrepresenting prewrath and ignoring  prewrath responses to it. Crone (as well as Markell) have been challenged to a public moderated debate and both have declined to defend their pretribulation rapture view with a prewrath exponent.

Billy Crone is also a hypocrite because he says he wants “dialogue,” but that is disingenuous since in practice he persists in his refusal to dialogue and have meaningful interaction with those who disagree with him. Mr. Crone, if you want to be true to your word, contact me and we can set up a debate at your church next year. Thomas Ice has proven that he is interested in dialogue when we had a Christ-honoring debate a few years ago on this issue. Are you willing to do the same? Or will you continue to be more concerned with words than deeds?

Just to give you one pathetic reason that Crone says in the program for not to believe in the prewrath position is that Robert Van Kampen was a “multi-millionaire.” Wow, have not heard that one before! (Incidentally, whenever I hear this trope by pretribbers they conveniently fail to mention that Tim LaHaye was a very wealthy man and used his wealth extensively to promulgate the pretrib position.)

Billy Crone goes on to slander Van Kampen by saying that “money cannot buy you truth,” as if this was Van Kampen’s agenda. Evidently, Crone did not read Van Kampen’s book where he talks about pouring over God’s Word and studying it for thousands of hours trying to be a Berean and seek the truth on this issue—I guess in Crone’s world, wealthy Christian businessmen are not suppose to do that. Nope, *scary voice* Van Kampen’s evil wealth was his sinister plot!

And Crone, evidently, thinks God is incapable of using wealthy Christian businessmen to promote biblical truth. According to Crone’s logic then the countless—and I mean countless—of missionaries and Gospel-centered ministries that Van Kampen supported over the decades to spread the Gospel of Christ to the lost is invalidated. I would hate to be in Crone’s shoes on judgment day when he must give an account for his flippant slander. And anyone who buys into Billy Crone’s ad hominem slander as a “defense of pretrib” has no earthly discernment.

Let me explain what is going on with Markell and her pretrib ilk.  They are desperate. In recent years, they have been circling the wagon and crying “woe is us!” In an attempt to stop the blood loss (pretribs going over to prewrath, which they admit) they are making themselves out to be “victims,” ignoring meaningful interaction with prewrath, misrepresenting prewrath, and even going so far as to warn their adherents that we are teaching “Satanic” doctrine.

Jan, Eric, and Billy, your approach is not working, nor will it work. In fact, it will make more of your pretrib adherents rethink pretrib theology. If you want to have meaningful, Christ-honoring dialogue that will glorify God and benefit his people, then you know what to do.

 

(VIDEO) Pretrib Teacher Billy Crone Caught Denying Imminence

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The Bible although it doesn’t give us the date of the rapture, it does give us indicators when it is getting close, the season (emphasis mine). —Billy Crone on Prophecy Watchers hosted by Gary Stearman –6/1/17

Sooner or later when you get pretrib teachers to talk a lot, they end up making statements that deny their own pretrib, imminence theology, or at least commit other inconsistencies in their pretrib theological system.

Also, while they are adamant of a pretrib rapture, they ironically are the most obsessed about talking about signs of the end, which they typically—in their system—qualify by saying the signs refer to the second coming and not the rapture (they disconnect the rapture from the second coming).

But in this particular instance, Crone explicitly claims there are “indicators” to the rapture! (see video time stamp below at 2:02).

This is a direct contradiction to imminence dogma, which every pretrib teacher would admit. Pretrib teachers define imminence as the teaching that Jesus can return at any moment to rapture the church, and that there are no signs, indicators, conditions, intervening events, and the like that signal the rapture. They believe that there will be signs, indicators, conditions, and intervening events that signal the second coming. But they believe there is absolutely nothing that signals the rapture.

So Billy Crone commits a massive contradiction to his own pretrib, imminence theological position claiming there are indicators to the rapture.

Will Crone retract his denial of imminence?

In addition, at the very opening of the video below, Gary Stearman states “Prophetically speaking we’ve entered the final countdown.” It is not as explicit as Crone’s statement, but it also certainly contradicts imminence theology.

 

Billy Crone Commits a Form of the Ancient Heresy of Dualism

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Billy Crone in defending pretribulationism as you can see in the video below (starting at 10:10) argues fallaciously that since Jesus opens up the seals, therefore the seals must be God’s eschatological wrath. In other words, in his thinking Jesus cannot be sovereign and have good purposes in his divine decree for the persecution of his Church as depicted in him opening up the seals. I have refuted in the past the notion that the seals are God’s wrath, a topic for the record that Crone will not publicly debate. For Crone if the seals are expressions of man’s wrath or Antichrist/Satan’s wrath then God cannot have any involvement in them (tell that to Job!).

It’s like the proverbial Baptist pastor who runs down to the local hospital when one of his parishioners gets injured and immediately says, “Don’t worry, God had nothing to do with it.” If God had nothing to do with it then he is powerless when Satan acts and as such God concedes to Satan’s will. Not only is that the worse pastoral counseling for those suffering, indicating that God has no power and purpose in suffering, it is first rank heresy.

Crone’s seals’ interpretation stems from his larger dualistic theology. His interpretation, whether he is aware of it or not, commits the ancient heresy of dualism, where it is thought that God and Satan are sovereign independent powers fighting it out over the ages and into the last days. God happens to win in the end, but Satan can thwart his will.

God and Satan are not independent powers in the Bible, nor in the book of Revelation. God in his infinite—and unquestionable wisdom (be like Job and cover your mouth)—uses evil and suffering to bring about his good purposes (e.g. “As for you, you meant to harm me, but God intended it for a good purpose, so he could preserve the lives of many people, as you can see this day.” (Gen 50:20; cf. Acts 4:27–28).

One other note, Crone does not mention specifically the fifth seal. Mr. Crone are you saying then that God’s wrath is unleashed against believers of the fifth seal? Crone actually does believe this because in his twisted view of the nature of the Church and atonement since the fifth-seal martyrs missed the rapture these blood-bought believers during the Tribulation period are not protected from God’s wrath.

Twisted, isn’t it? All in the name to protect the holy-grail of this doctrine of man: imminence.

 

A Teachable Moment Why Pretrib Logic Fails Miserably on the Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

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Billy Crone in the video below (starting at 8:00) commits this common logical and biblical error on this issue.

Here is the pretrib logic:

Pretribs reason that since the Seventy-Weeks prophecy in Daniel  9:24–27 was given to Israel, the Church cannot “exist” on earth during any of its fulfillment.

Here is why this common pretrib argument fails:

First, pretribs such as Crone would have to deny that the Church exists during the New Covenant fulfillment, since Jeremiah prophesied specifically to “the people of Israel and Judah.” (See Jeremiah 31:31–34). I am sure that Billy Crone would admit that he is a New Covenant believer.

Pretribs cannot have their cake and eat it too. This obvious logical inconsistency seems to escape their minds.

The New Covenant was not made with the Church, but the Church is governed under this covenant as the New Testament teaches that the New Covenant was extended to the Gentiles. We have to look to the New Testament for its progressive revelation to learn these matters.

Why can the New Covenant that was made to Israel be applied additionally to Gentiles, but the 70 weeks prophecy made to Israel cannot also include God working with the Church at the same time?

We are never told.

Billy Crone and other pretribs are myopic and do not allow the New Testament progressive revelation to give us more information about the particulars of the 70th week of Daniel.

Many more examples could be given from the Old Testament. Here is another one:

Peter in Acts 2:16-21 is citing from a prophecy from Joel that was given to Israel and applying it also to the new Church situation. You cannot have a more explicit OT prophecy made to Israel while also including an application of its fulfillment to the Church.

Second, pretrib logic on this issue simply does not follow. It makes a category error by confusing what with when.

They argue that since the Church did not exist during the first 69 sets of seven years (483 years), therefore the Church cannot be there for the last seven years. That is a non sequitur. It fails logically.

The fact that the Church did not exist at the time of the first part of this prophecy (69 sets of seven years, 483 years), who is to say that God is not going to work with both the Church and Israel during the last part of this prophecy? The Church does exist now. So logically it can be here for the last seven years.

When you allow for New Testament progressive revelation, you can learn more than what the Old Testament reveals. Imagine that!

And just to clarify these prophecies to Israel are not being replaced by the Church. The New Testament is simply telling us that God is expanding his redemptive program to the Gentiles, while he keeps his promises to Israel.

The Danielic passage is addressing Israel. Pretribs is trying to say more than it does by making it say that no other redemptive group can exist at that time.

Third, God has worked with both Israel and the Church at the same time in the past and he does in the present.

In the past:

Jesus made a prophecy to Israel about God’s judgment upon them (Matt 24:1–2; Luke 19:43–44).

When was this prophecy to Israel fulfilled? It happened in AD 70—during the Church age! Do you know where I am going with this?

Once again, why are we told that the prophecy to Israel about the 70 weeks excludes any fulfillment during the Church age, but a prophecy to Israel about its judgment is not?

When you have a theological system such as pretribulationism built on a web of assumptions, you will inevitably face internal inconsistencies.

In the present:

God also works with Israel and the Church at the same time, not just in the past, but the present:

“(19) But again I ask, didn’t Israel understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous by those who are not a nation; with a senseless nation I will provoke you to anger.” (20) And Isaiah is even bold enough to say, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I became well known to those who did not ask for me.” (Rom 10:19–20)

“I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous.” (Rom 11:11)

“For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.” (Rom 11:25)

These passages teach that God in this present Church age is working with Israel to make them “jealous.”

These reasons are sufficient to show that pretrib logic fails miserably when they claim that the Church “cannot be here” for the last part of Daniel’s prophecy.

This article was intended to show the illogical nature of this pretrib claim. The positive evidence of the Bible that shows the Church will enter into the seven-year period is overwhelming as the voluminous articles on this blog and the podcast have shown, not to mention my book Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord.

 

Pretrib teacher Billy Crone continues to produce more prewrathers!

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Gary Stearman, please continue to have Billy Crone on your show, because he is producing more ex-pretribbers and thus more prewrathers!

Crone’s colossal ignorance in his pretrib safe space is on display in the Prophecy Watchers below. It is truly amazing to watch his really bad argumentation. I am not kidding when I say this but I am embarrassed for him.

For those who may not be aware, prewrath is making MAJOR inroads into pretrib circles. I expect more of these desperate attempts to respond to prewrath.

It is no wonder why Crone refuses to defend his pretrib position in a public moderated debate with me.

Update: Prophecy Watchers took down the video soon after it was posted. I hope they put the video back up.

Second Update: They put it back up!

 

Jan Markell and Billy Crone Go Apoplectic Against Non-Pretrib Views

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Jan Markell – Olive Tree Ministries

Just a quick note on this example of this inane interview that pop-pretribber Jan Markell had with Billy Crone.

I don’t keep up with these programs or interviews myself. I receive emails everyday from people sending me links to these shows and cannot possibly respond to them. But I want to note this one.

Why are you seeing recently a spate of desperation among certain pretrib teachers?

Because they are witnessing many pretrib believers coming over to the prewrath position. This is very encouraging for prewrath. God is making inroads into the tradition-bound circles of pretribulationism.

What we are seeing recently is pretrib teachers like Billy Crone who are blustering about pretrib on the pop pretrib radio programs, even though he refuses to defend his pretrib view in a public moderated debate.

In this interview, Crone implicitly challenged anyone to refute his pretrib interpretation of Revelation 3:10. I am waiting Mr. Crone. Let’s have that debate.

But Crone is disingenuous and does not really mean this. It is pure bluster.

For example he claims that σε τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς ὥρας τοῦ πειρασμοῦ (I will keep you from the hour of testing) is the clearest argument for pretribulationism. His explanation of this phrase is so out of touch with the linguistic context that I may use it in a forthcoming book on how not to commit lexical fallacies. Mr. Crone stop going on your safe-space pretrib radio programs pretending to be this irrefutable exponent of the pretrib position.

He also commits the common word-concept fallacy with orge! Nothing we have not addressed already. Pretrib teachers are not progressing with argumentation, but sadly regressing.

The reason Crone will not debate is because he knows for a fact that he will not be able to bluster on about pretrib and he knows his arguments would fall apart during the debate, including the cross-examination period.

 

A Reply to Billy Crone’s Defamation Against Christians Who Love Jews and Affirm a Future Israel

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Billy Crone | Get a Life Ministries | Photo: vimeo.com/191178874

“For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.” (2 Cor 2:17)

Notice the last statement in the verse above: “we speak in Christ in the sight of God.” Evidently, this statement does not register with Crone, since recently he flippantly defamed countless believers who affirm the prewrath position and love Jews by falsely calling them anti-Semites and replacement theologians for…get this…believing that the Church will enter into the seven-year period. See the video documentation below.

Billy Crone is defaming countless non-pretrib Christians by falsely attributing the following two beliefs to them:

Anti-Semitism is “hostility to or prejudice against Jews.”

Replacement Theology is “the Church has replaced Israel and thereby Israel has no future plan in God’s program.”

If you are not a pre-tribber as Crone is, you are an anti-Semite, according to his twisted logic.

Never mind the fact that one of the main pillars of prewrath eschatology is affirming God’s unconditional promise to Israel, a love for Israel that prewrath has consistently defended from its inception.

Never mind the fact that we have put on conferences that specifically argue against replacement theology and anti-Semitism, including having keynote speaker and prewrather Barry Horner who has written the book: Future Israel: Why Christian Anti-Judaism Must Be Challenged.

Never mind the fact that I am co-editing (and soon to be announced) the most extensive, scholarly book to have ever been published responding specifically to Supersessionism of Israel’s future (aka Replacement Theology) by twenty-five leading scholars.

Never mind the fact that Eschatos Ministries, the Jewish ministry Zions Hope Ministries, Sign Ministries, and a host of other prewrath ministries have been on the forefront of refuting anti-Semitism and Replacement Theology. Evidently, Joel Richardson is also an anti-Semite and replacement theologian according to Billy Crone’s twisted logic!

And speaking of the forefront of combating anti-Semitism and Replacement Theology, according to Crone’s twisted and defamatory logic the Jewish Messianic apologist Michael Brown must be anti-Semitic and a replacement theologian because he is posttrib!

And never mind the fact that out here in New Jersey with one of the highest concentration of Jews in the country I witness personally to Jews. Has Crone ever stepped into a synagogue and witnessed to Jews including the Rabbi? If I am an “anti-Semite” according to Crone why on earth would I be loving Jews and sharing the Gospel with him? We are never told by him.

Crone’s indefensible and irresponsible accusation should be retracted if he is concerned about “speaking in Christ in the sight of God.”

I could turn Crone’s twisted logic against him and say that he is anti-Semitic and a replacement theologian since as a prettribber he does not believe that God is working with Israel at this very time during the Church age. But I am not going to stoop to such bottom-of-the barrel cheap, defamatory, flawed reasoning, because I want to “speak in Christ in the sight of God.”

Pretribulational teachers such as Crone get away with this stuff quite a bit. I ignore most of it, but at times they need to be called on it.

Where is this all coming from? I have said before that these pretrib teachers and pretrib TV hosts know that prewrath is making major inroads into their circles. They do not like this. So it is easier to misrepresent prewrath and make desperate attacks against a position using skewed reasoning while thinking he has the authority to redefine terms on the whim such as “anti-Semitism” and “Replacement theology” that utterly lack any semblance to their genuine meanings.

Crone makes up new meanings of these weighty and somber terms to fit his pretrib agenda and demonize other positions such as prewrath—and consequently he drains the true meanings of the ugliness of anti-Semitism and Replacement Theology for his petty pretrib motives, eclipsing them with his idiosyncratic, agenda-laden usage. It’s like the Social Justice Warrior who cries “racism” every other breath, emptying out the true and serious meaning of racism.

Is it any wonder why pretribs are leaving in droves and affirming other eschatological positions such as prewrath? This type of reasoning (actually an attack) is unbecoming of a Christian. It may play well with non-Berean pretrib types, but not thinking, Christ-loving believers who love Jews, praying and loving them to the true Messiah: Jesus of Nazareth.

 

Shameful Pretrib Billy Crone Lies by Saying Prewrath Promotes Anti-Semitism

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Billy Crone continues to misrepresent and lie about the prewrath position. He has been challenged to defend his views and statements publically in a debate, but refuses to do so. He knows he cannot do it. I explain below why pretribs are having these desperate and ungodly reactions to prewrath.

Now Crone has taken his deception to a new level by defaming the prewrath position by stating that it and other views who think the church will enter into the 70th week are promoting “anti-Semitism.” That is first rank twisted logic.

Mr. Crone, you need to retract your statements on claiming that prewrath promotes anti-Semitism. That is such an ignorant and outlandish slanderous claim. Retract or defend them publically in a debate.

In the video below he makes a shot-gun tirade against prewrath with hackneyed statements and misrepresentation. Among his many easily-refuted claims, he even commits the blundered and fallacious claim that the “aorist is the past tense”! Mr. Crone, temporal reference is not part of the meaning of a verb. Context gives us time, not the tense-form. This has been so thoroughly refuted in Greek linguistics for decades.

You are not able to defend that and all of your other blusterous claims against prewrath in a public moderated debate. You can make those in your safe space with the host Gary Stearman. But being challenged under cross-examination is another matter.  

I realize that pretrib circles such as Prophecy Watchers and other pretrib ministries are getting worried that prewrath is making major inroads. I am encouraged at that, and it makes sense to see this desperate reaction toward prewrath: Lie, distort, defame prewrath teaching. But defending your views biblically is what Christ would want us to do, yes?

UPDATE: Pretrib Pastor Billy Crone of Get A Life Ministries Declines to Defend His Pretribulationism in a Public Moderated Debate

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Just a quick update for those who were asking about a possible debate with Billy Crone. He has declined my debate invitation.

That is too bad, but I am not surprised. Many pretrib teachers are confident in their bluster about how “biblical” their pretrib view is within the confines of their safe spaces on pretrib programs. But when actually challenged to defend their own views by a prewrather, you only hear….crickets. I think that should speak volumes.

I am willing to defend my prewrath views under his cross-examination. But he is not willing to do the same with his views.

It’s ironic that his book is entitled The Rapture: Don’t Be Deceived. If Crone was so concerned about believers not being deceived from non-pretrib views, he certainly is not doing a good job of it by declining debates that would warn people of being “deceived.”

 

 

Public Debate Challenge for BILLY CRONE to Defend His Pretribulational Imminent Rapture

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Billy Crone is a pretrib teacher who dogmatically claims that the Bible teaches the imminent return of Jesus.

I am putting out this public debate challenge to Mr. Crone asking him to defend his claims in a public moderated debate with myself. He can take the affirmative: The Bible teaches the imminent return of Jesus. I will take the denial.

This would be a wonderful opportunity for meaningful discussion on this all-important topic of eschatology, not the least bring glory to Christ in the proclamation and articulation of the truth of his Word. The body of Christ would benefit from hearing both sides of the issue and their interaction with each other.

What better venue to have the debate than at Gary Stearman’s 1st annual Blessed Hope Prophecy Forum Registration (October 13-15, 2017) put on by Prophecy Watchers. This would be a chance for Crone to defend his claims in front of a pretrib audience, while at the same time debunk the prewrath position that he thinks is easily refuted.

We shall see if he is willing to defend his views publicly. I am willing.

 

A Quick Reply to Pretribs Pastor Billy Crone and Derek Gilbert

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Pretrib talk-show host Derek Gilbert had pretrib Pastor Billy Crone on his show to discuss his pretrib book, ironically titled The Rapture: Don’t Be Deceived.

Crone’s book is same old, same old pretrib argumentation. One particular topic he brought up is his allegorical interpretation of the “Jewish Wedding.” And a few minutes later Gilbert and Crone said that we should not allegorize Scripture!

Crone completely assumes that the Jewish wedding teaches imminence, because the bride he says does not know when his groom is coming! Moreover, they read wholesale their pretrib system of theology of a Jewish tradition that is not even in the Bible! Crone even admits this that he gets this from outside of the Bible and so he forces his preconceived conclusion of imminence upon Scripture by finding scattered parallels in the Bible. He and Gilbert then conclude that this must teach imminence!

As I have said many times, they have to do this because imminence is not found in the Bible. Incidentally, I have a section in my forthcoming book that comprehensively critiques imminence debunking this point of the “Jewish Wedding” argument that some pretribs use.

One last point on this. If a pretribber ever tries to draw from the separation event of the ten virgins in Matthew 25, simply point out that is a parable to illustrate the separation event at Jesus’ return in Matthew 24:31—an event that occurs after the Antichrist’s great tribulation. They conveniently ignore that fact, for obvious reasons.

Next, Crone also misrepresented the prewrath rapture by saying it teaches the rapture will happen “three quarters” into the seven-year period. The moment you hear pretribs say we believe this, don’t believe anything else they say because they are lazy or dishonest, it’s one of those two.

Pretribbers are like the mainstream media of MSNBC and CNN where they have to distort and misrepresent the other side to promote their biased agenda. Gilbert knows that this is not true about the prewrath position and he should had corrected Crone, but he chose not to.

Crone also claimed that the early church fathers taught imminence (“tons of evidence”)—but he does not provide a single document that states that the rapture of the church will occur before the Antichrist. It is truly amazing how irresponsible these people are with doing church history.

Crone also disconnects the rapture from the second coming by selectively comparing apples with oranges. We have covered this ploy so many times and it is once again refuted in the forthcoming book critiquing imminence.

Billy Crone is long on assertions, and short on evidence. And that sums up pretribulationism.

Don’t be deceived by Crone’s man-made teaching on the rapture.

 

Copyright © 2018 by Alan Kurschner.