Reply to Pete Garcia and His “Pre-Wrath Debunked Part II”

Just when you thought it could not get worse.

Recently, Alan Kurschner and Chris White did a YouTube video attempting to debunk Dr. Jimmy DeYoung over the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.  Why Jimmy, as opposed to Tommy Ice or Chuck Missler, I don’t know, but what I hope to show you here is the clear and understandable teaching of the doctrinal position that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture holds in our Scriptures.

Why Jimmy? Why not?

Pete, why did you invoke the YouTube video if you are not going to respond to my argumentation in the video? That’s odd.

You cited 1 Thessalonians  4:15-5:4 as proof for the pretribulational position, but you failed to explain how merely citing a text proves it. There is that little something called…argumentation. Merely citing a passage is not enough. The same goes for your mere citation of Revelation 1:19. How does that prove a pretribulational rapture? We are not told.

“Skeptics will point to the fact that John was caught up to “show him things that would take place after this” while the Church itself wouldn’t need be shown these things…since we will be in the future as compared to when John wrote it. First of all, as Abraham’s attempted sacrifice of Isaac was type of Christ’s ultimate fulfillment, so too is John’s catching up a type of what will happen to the Church.  No one has an issue with seeing the picture with Isaac on the altar, but apply that same principle to the Church in Revelation 4:1-2, and it suddenly is a bridge too far.  To me, that is a very inconsistent way to interpret the Scriptures.”

How on God’s green earth does this support that John’s catching up in the spirit symbolizes the rapture of the church? You are going to have to do better than this.

“In chapters 1-3, the church is referenced 19 times. During the next 18 chapters (4-22), the churches or even the word church, is not mentioned even once. Those who are mentioned are; the saints, martyrs, twelve tribes of Israel, earth dwellers, those who dwell on the earth, and the inhabitants of the earth. If the church did have to go through the Tribulation, even partway, why is there no mention of them?  Clearly, John was familiar with the term “ecclesia” since he had to write it 19 times in the first 3 chapters.  We shouldn’t make it a habit to argue from silence…unless that silence is absolutely deafening…at which point God is trying to drive home a point.”

This type of really bad argumentation scares me. I spent a good deal refuting this worn-out argument in the youtube video above. But Pete chose to ignore it. This argument has been thoroughly refuted here and here as well as the youtube video above.

“Pre-wrath subscribers point to the text “great tribulation” as being only the last 3 ½ years of the Tribulation in what the church is kept from.

The “text of the ‘great tribulation'”? I think he means the “event.” Nevertheless, he is sloppy in not even getting the basics of the prewrath position correct. Prewrath does not believe the last half of the “tribulation” period is the “great tribulation.”

Okay I cannot go on with this. The remaining part of his article is woefully lacking coherence and sense, such as statements as “Paul NEVER instructs the Church to ready herself for the ‘wrath of God.'”

One last statement I will respond to. He writes:

“I am not a spokesman for Dr. DeYoung, and I’m sure that he is more than capable of fighting his own battles.  But I do hold deep respect for Chris White, who has done some excellent scholarly work battling legalism and the Hebrew Roots movement, so his pinpoint attack on Jimmy seems strangely odd to me”

Pete, you need to be honest with your words. There was no “attack” against Jimmy DeYoung. I know using that inflammatory language plays well with many in your circles. We were critiquing his pretribulational claims, plain and simple. And you did not address a single point of mine in that video.

You have more fundamental problems than subscribing to pretribulationism. You really need to learn basic principles of how to interpret the Bible, and you need to learn to represent other positions you disagree with accurately and fairly. Only then will we have meaningful interaction that glorifies God and edifies his people.

“I could have easily turned this into a four or five ‘parter’ with the amount of scriptural evidence that stacks up against the Pre-Wrath theory, but I simply don’t have the time.”

Thanks for sparing us.


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